Inside the Oakland Raiders-Thoughts from the Dark Side- MVN 2008 NFL Mock Draft War Room

Thoughts from the Dark Side

April 12, 2008

Inside the Oakland Raiders-Thoughts from the Dark Side- MVN 2008 NFL Mock Draft War Room

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The 2008 MVN Writers Mock draft has commenced. Rob and I have been in war room mode trying to come to an agreement on who we should pick as the representatives of the Oakland Raiders in this exorcise. As of this writing, the Atlanta Falcons are currently on the clock with a pick to be submitted in the morning. The usual suspects of Chris Long, Jake Long, Vernon Gholston, Ryan Clady, Sedrick Ellis, and Glenn Dorsey have been discussed and dissected. We have looked at past Raider drafts for clues on how we should go with this pick. We have deliberated over the numerous comments and suggestions that you guys have left, and worked on winnowing down the field of candidates.

To recap so far, Jake Long was taken by the Miami Dolphins and much to our displeasure, Chris Long was taken by the St Louis Rams. The Falcons are currently on the clock so we have until tomorrow afternoon to make our final selection.

Here is a breakdown on how we see the available prospects at this point. (I would print our reaction to finding out that Chris Long was off the board, but we try to keep things rated PG around here.)

Rob and I both agree that if there were trades, we would be working the phones hard core trying to come up with a trade down deal for some more picks, as the we only have four picks in this draft. (Its a one round mock, but if we were in the Raiders' front office.)

Here is our thoughts on the prospects:

Darren McFadden- McFadden is a top level talent, but is not a favored pick in the Thoughts from the Dark Side war room with the level of depth that the Raiders already have at running back. Michael Bush, who would have been a top prospect last season is healthy and ready to go. Justin Fargas who raked in over 1000 yards last season despite only seeing significant playing time in half the games was just resigned to a three year deal. Dominic Rhodes played well in spot duty at the end of last season renegotiated his contract to stay with the Raiders. The Raiders running game was the strongest part of the team last season, and with the offensive line getting a second year in the same system we only see improvement. The addition of a strong armed quarterback, with JaMarcus Russell starting from day one and an improved receiving corps should also open things further for the running game. We don't doubt that McFadden is going to be a very good to great RB in the NFL, but with the Raiders' current situation we don't see him as the best pick for Oakland at this point. (sorry, FoSho)

Glenn Dorsey- Dorsey is an intriguing prospect, as until quite recently he was thought to be a lock to go to Miami at number one. His injury concerns have started a slide down the draft board. He is in consideration, as the Raiders need help along the defensive front. With the Raiders additions at defensive tackle, does Dorsey really fill the need the Raiders have? His name has come up a lot in Rob and I's war room discussions.

Sedrick Ellis- Ellis helped his case having a monster Senior Bowl and Pro Day workout. Dorsey's injury concerns could be Ellis's gain. Rob and I do feel that he could be the answer next to Kelly to help shore up the pathetic rushing defense the Raiders have shown. We are a bit higher on him than Dorsey due to the injury concerns. The Raiders have not had the best of luck when it comes to drafting players off injury.

Ryan Clady- Neither Rob or I are comfortable with the idea of Kwame Harris protecting JaMarcus Russell's blind side, despite being firm believers of "In Tom Cable we Trust." Clady has prototypical left tackle size, but is athletic enough to play in the zone blocking system. He also has a long arm-span and can keep the defenders from getting inside. Some say that he would be a reach at #4, but I doubt he would get by the Chiefs at five.

Vernon Gholston- Gholston is the type of athletic freak that Al Davis is said to love. He may be better suited to be a pass rushing OLB in the mold of Derrick Thomas than a hand on the ground defensive lineman. He had a monster combine and that rocketed him up the draft boards. He also fills a major need, as the Raiders only have three defensive ends currently on the roster. He is big, strong, and fast and can get to the quarterback. He could be a dangerous pass rushing tandem once he is paired with Derrick Burgess.

Tune in tomorrow to Thoughts from the Dark Side and NFL Draft University to see which name is going to be on the card that we submit to the commissioner.

Tags: NFL, Oakland Raiders, Raiders

Discussion

35 Comments on "Inside the Oakland Raiders-Thoughts from the Dark Side- MVN 2008 NFL Mock Draft War Room"

Posted by Inside the Oakland Raiders Warroom in the 2008 MVN Writers Mock Draft - Oakland Raiders Forum | Mess, April 12, 2008 12:27 AM

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Posted by OakFoSho, April 12, 2008 1:17 AM

Patrick,

It's all good! I know your belief is the Raiders need a run stopping space eater, and I can respect that. If you feel that Dorsey or Ellis is that guy, and it eventually works out, then I am all for it and would happily be wrong about Run DMC. If thats the rout you and Rob decide to go, I will support it and do my best not to cry. (Tears welling up ......sobs.... whimper)

If this is the case, who do you see as the odd man out on the DL, (Sands?, Joseph?) or do you see the Raiders holding on to all that salary? If this is the way it plays out, I wonder what Al will do to alleviate some of the cap strain with all that salary tied up on the DL.

OakFoSho

Posted by qdog1963, April 12, 2008 5:12 AM

No way do you go D-Mac here. Michael Bush is a BEAST, he is 100% healthy, and can handle the running load. If Dorsey is Available, you HAVE to take him. Remember how bad Oaklands run defense was last year? The guy is the re-incarnation of a young Warren Sapp. Remember what he did for Tampa back in the day? If Dorsey is gone, then I feel you have to go with Gholston, this guy may be the best ATHLETE in the draft.

Posted by Raider Blues, April 12, 2008 5:26 AM

It appears we all agree on C.Long but none of us believe he'll be available.

Hey Al you've taken on the world all your life take on the current stakeholders and make it happen! One would think C.Long in Silver and Black would sell sell sell. It's a need and I believe he'll have the largest impact on the NFL anyway. Dorsey will have an impact but I don't think it will be very many years. DMac needs to quit getting women pregnant - he's falling for the age old trick of being a paycheck for some skank 2 out of 4 so far.

Al's mandate is C.Long and props to OakFoSho for the line.

Just Win Baby!

Posted by Joe, April 12, 2008 6:15 AM

They have to improve the offensive line. Their run blockings is okay, but the pass blocking sucks. Today the Raider starting lineup will not allow Russell time to set up, so off to the races he goes, moving out of the pocket to save his life. Can you imagine the left side of the line after every passing down, putting both hands on top of their helmet as they walk back to the huddle, after allowing Russell to be crushed. Harris for Sims, spare me. There is nothing left to say about Gallery. Who is the starting right tackle, I don't know..

Where is John Villa when we need him?

Posted by Thoughts from the Dark Side: 2008 NFL Mock Draft War Room | The RaiderCast, April 12, 2008 7:06 AM

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Posted by muse, April 12, 2008 7:13 AM

Most zone-blocking teams are not strong at passing blocking...McFadden should be the choice based on Fargas is not an elite back,Bush nobody knows if he can make game-day cuts over and over without any pain and Rhodes is not a work-horse.....i think we may even trade Fargas for more picks,he only really performed agaisnt weker defences,he dosent have break-away speed and has hands of stone..his upright no jinking style invites big-hits and injuries,thats why will will take DMC and pick up more picks through trades..

Posted by SeattleRaider, April 12, 2008 7:22 AM

True Joe, But do you reach for Clady? Try to trade down? (no guarantee of a trading partner) Or another way to look at it is..... to draft McFadden, use the play action pass to slow down attackers, plus you get RB/WR/QB in one pick. Good value at #4.

With the current secondary, should be able to allow the LBs to focus primarily on run stuffing. I would like to see the offense get another star, I don't want to put the season on the shoulders of Bush and Walker.

If not Dmac, (assuming the Long's are gone)then Gholston he's a beast and would compliment Burgess.

Posted by Mad Road Dog, April 12, 2008 8:17 AM

The obvious and safest bet is to trade down. Our absolutely biggest need is the "O" line followed by the "D" line. If we do not get a LT and a RT before the season starts we are destined for a another 4-12 season.

I know our schedule is supposed to be easier but this is a make or brake year for JR and everone in the NFL knows what AD does not. That all you have to do to beat the Raiders is stack the line against the run and blitz the whole defense on passing downs.

#10

Posted by Mad Road Dog, April 12, 2008 8:35 AM

The Raiders worst years are a result of AD's indifference to having the best of talent on the lines. Yes, he drafted or allowed the HC to draft Gallery and Grove as well as the others. But they were bad picks and AD keeps bringing in "O" line coaches to work their magic but as the old saying goes "You can't make silk out of a pig's ear"

Every playoff calibre team is there because they have an "O" line that can pass block as well as run block. Most of the time the starter comes from a high draft pick and others don't but the playoff team's GM and HC make sure the talent is there either way. The premier LTs are not found in the later rounds period. Once you got one they are like toosie rolls, they last a long time.

#11

Posted by Tonytwizz65, April 12, 2008 8:54 AM

We already have four running backs on the roster and at least one of them should emerge as the clear starter or running back by committee at the worst. Definite need is d-line help, being we were the next to last worst team in stopping the run, then draft for o-line help and maybe another reciever. Gottta give AD credit, at least he did some shopping but he definitely overpaid Kelly. Lets hope big boy earns his money. All in all, we shold be better this year but how much is anyones guess.

#12

Posted by BamaRaider, April 12, 2008 9:29 AM

Enough with the 'galllery's a bust'. Maybe at tackle, but he gave up 1 sack last year, and had trouble with marrion (who doesn't). He's solid at tackle (but it'll take the pro bowl before anyone gives him any pub).

#13

Posted by eks, April 12, 2008 9:44 AM

I think if Miami trades out then it becomes more interesting for Oakland and other teams as well. It may free up a player otherwise taken. Hypotheticals. Just trying to add something new to the conversation, even though everything has been mentioned a zillion times already.

#14

Posted by Corey O, April 12, 2008 9:46 AM

Mad Road Dog

"this is a make or brake year for JR"

How is this a make or break year for Russell?

This is his first year starting. And we have 70M invested in him. Wow!

#15

Posted by eks, April 12, 2008 9:48 AM

yeah, some don't make sense about JR. This is his first year and usually you give an investment like that at least 3 years before you label him anything. Also, you need to take into consideration the team around him when you judge his performance. 08= year 1 for JR

#16

Posted by pat, April 12, 2008 10:05 AM

Damn people need to stop saying that Robert Gallery is a bust he played like a beast at the left guard positon. I think Kwame Harris will be the started unless our 3rd round pick lat year Mario Henderson can beat him out.

I say we go for Vernon Gholston if we cant trade down, and if we can maybe with a team like the Jets if they want Dmac or Vernon Gholston and they give us their 1st round and 2nd round and maybe something like a 5th or 6th round pick. Then we take the guy they dont take, or some one like Brandon Albert he's extremly versatille he can play both guards and tackle positions. But i doubt were able to trade down so i repeat Vernon Gholston, on pass rushing situations either he or Derrick Burgess will be one on one which could mean an easy sack.

The only sure thing in this draft is if Chris Long is there at number 4 the Raiders take him thats a no brainer.

GO RAIDERS!?!?!?!?!?!

#17

Posted by pat, April 12, 2008 10:17 AM

I wouldnt say that this a make or break year for J.R, but i do think that he will be soild this year with the additions of Javon Walker and Drew Carter at WR. But i honestly think our offense should be average to above average this year.

Our defense is what we need to improve. with a guy like Vernon Gholston at OLB or DE and Derrick Burgess and Gerrard Warren and a guy like Tommy Kelly and maybe a guy like Kalimba Edwards our pass rush should improve. Plus remember a few years ago everyone was talking about how we acquired Randy Moss and Derrick Burgess went under the radar and we've seen what he's done the past 3 years. Maybe Kalimba Edwards will be that guy. But i still say if Chris Long isn't there then we take Vernon Gholston. Plus we see how Shawn Merriman has killed us the past few years.

#18

Posted by raidz, April 12, 2008 10:32 AM

A pass rush DE isn't really what we need. With the secondary we have, we'll be able to make QBs wait for their open reciever then a sack will come, just about anyone in the NFL could get a sack with our secondary behind them. Yeah sure Shawne Merriman has been killing us with his pass rush but we'll be fine with ours. Go with a run stopping D-linemen and our team seems to be set on defense. maybe if we don't pick a DE at #4 we could find one later in the draft if we can somehow get more picks. With the teams we play twice a year (LaDanian Tomlinson, Larry Johnson) we need to stop the run to get back on the top of the AFC west.

we need to dtop the run thus...

Al's mandate is Dorsey!!

#19

Posted by rockyraida, April 12, 2008 11:10 AM

I forgot,another reason to steer clear of DMC

He has this disease that could translate to

a big problem on the pro level. it's called

FUMBA-LY TIS aka fumbalia.

D-line all day

#20

Posted by RaiderKC, April 12, 2008 11:43 AM

If C.Long is gone, you have to go McFadden. His talent is too hard to pass on. Fargas is an ave. RB at best, racked up yards on subpar def's working with a last place schedule and he' injury prone. Bush-unknown, Jordan-bust, gone and Rhodes is trade bait. McFadden will take pressure off the WR's and OL-DL has to account for him. Make trades for 2-5 rounds (Sands, Rhodes, Washington, Routt, Schweigert, Madsen, O'Neil, etc-May take 2-3 players for 1 pick). P/U DT, DE, LB in later rounds or p/u after 06/01/08 cuts with F/A.

qdog-how do you know Bush is the real deal (100%) and still has the skills (2yrs off)?

Muse-Amen!

Trade down? To whom? Who's inquiring to trade up?

Pat-Yes, Gallery is a bust at OT, he's worked as a guard, but you don't go 1st round on a guard.

#21

Posted by Corey O, April 12, 2008 2:27 PM

RaiderKC

"go McFadden. His talent is too hard to pass on."

Yes.... And so is Dorsey's, Gholston's, & Ellis'.

"Fargas is an ave"

He executed in his role superbly. Prorate/project his '07 production for an entire season; he surpases 1200+ on the ground easily.

"Bush-unknown"

Unknown? You mean in the since of Adrian "All-Day" Peterson? Peterson was BIG-TIME coming out of O.U. Bush was BIG-TIME just the same.

"Rhodes is trade bait"

Like roaches in a nuclear environment; Rhodes is going nowhere.

"Jordan-bust"

Busted back maybe. All of us were on his tip, the first few games of '07; 'til his back blew-out. But he's trade/cut-bait anyway.

In closing; no one questions RunDMC's potential stardom or ability. Just keep in mind that he wasn't born in Bethlehem one glorious eve.

Silver & Black All-Day Baby.... 'Audi.

#22

Posted by RAIDERKC, April 12, 2008 4:31 PM

Corey-I've said before this top 10 is too hard to make a bad pick. However, Gholston can only pass rush and we already have one of those in Burgess. Fargas didn't do much his first 4 yrs and is injury prone (last yr ran against a LAST PLACE schedule-i.e.#1 draft choice). Bush broke severily broke his leg and is an unknown if he can take an NFL running game (I hope he is great). Jordan injury prone and never has become a great RB as was hoped. Rhodes took a salary cut to stay or be traded or released and won't hurt the team. McFadden has been great on the field no issues (yes fumbled, but that can be easily corrected), returns kicks (Carr stunk and is gone), can line up WR, great at catching the ball and Fargas isn't; what else do you need to know???

#23

Posted by Corey O, April 12, 2008 7:39 PM

RAIDERKC

There's nothing you can tell me KC. You stick to your take; I most definitely will stick with mine. Unlike several on this board and a plethora of others; I've never insisted on anything or indicated that my view is written in stone. Guys hope this and that; but we really don't know.

From your vantage; you see an issue and seem to list skewed points to support your view, in hopes that it will be the catch of the day; i.e.

"Fargas didn��t do much his first 4 yrs and is injury prone"

The real question is; how injured was he last year? And what has he done for us lately? Has he progressively developed? Answer: Yes; as evidenced by the wet ink on his recent contract.

You added in the earlier unproductive years; knowing fully well that it wasn't intended for him to start earlier. His understood role was to learn and be a back-up; behind a volatile O-line at that (the reason for his "injury-prone" tag in the first place).

The bottom line is; I respect everyone's take; nonetheless, it appears to me that you are biased to your own prediction; so you leach on the slightest thing that appears to be negative on the team in support of that prediction.

No...... There's nothing else that I need to know. But thanks for the offer. 'Audi.

P.S. It is my advice that we snag the best DT available to nip that atrocious run-defensive ranking in the bud. But it��s just that�Ķ. ��My ��opinionated�� advice. We��ll see on the 26th.

#24

Posted by Mad Road Dog, April 13, 2008 9:09 AM

My bad, I meant to say Gallery was a bust at LT.

The first year for JR is the most crusial because he needs an "O" line to deveope without all the bad habits. Its like military flight school, the instructors would prefer that you have no flight experience so that they do not have first unteach the bad habits to lay the foundation.

#25

Posted by autumn_wind, April 13, 2008 1:08 PM

The autumn wind is blowing

bigger than before

hide the women and children

and don't forget to lock the doors

Captain Al has reloaded his cannon

for his last venture at sea

to grab the Lombardi trophy

Just you wait and see

First mates Kiffin and Ryan

and there new hired guns

will knock you down

and kick you around

until the treasure is won

the autumn wind is blowing

for raider nation to see

The autumn wind is blowing

go ahead haters don't believe

#26

Posted by vertgame, April 13, 2008 6:31 PM

Good arguments can be made for any of the top 6 as the Raiders pick *except* Matt Ryan . . . a 4-12 team needs A LOT of help, not just a home run hitter here or there, which is the problem (most of all) with McFadden.

I vote for Sedrick Ellis for the reasons cited in the original post, and, because the man *wants* to play for Oakland. You have to be half-demented to want to go to as dysfunctional an organization as Oakland's, and he does want to come here! There won't be any attitude problems.

#27

Posted by pat, April 13, 2008 7:29 PM

OakFoSHo dont say that im uneducated or uninformed, explain to me how u give Derrick Burgess top DE money if he cant play the run. Im a big fan of D. Burgess but i dont know if him not being a every down DE will get him the millions of dollars he wants. He's not Richard Seymour, Aaron Kampan, or a Dwight Freeney. I would rather pick and sign Chris Long or Vernon Gholston than give him top dollar. And i wasnt talking about his production last year i know he was injured, so dont assume things. And i dont think Dmac will be the pick either we were 6th in rushing offense last season but 31st in rush defense. But we also need some more picks. 1 pick on the 1st day for us just isnt going to cut it. And this goes out to the other Raiders fans learn how to spell the Raider players names(Dominic Rhodes and Justin Fargas).

Al's mandate Chris Long or Vernon Gholston!!!

GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

#28

Posted by pat, April 13, 2008 7:34 PM

VERNON GHOLSTON

#29

Posted by jason griffin, April 13, 2008 9:16 PM

Dorsey, Chris Long or Jake Long would all be ideal... if they go 1-2-3, than you really can't pass on DMac, even if it means ignoriing are obviously glaring needs on both sides of the line. Drafting McFadden probably ensures there is no chance of a magically contending in 08, but gives us the foundation to become a powerhouse for years to come... think Warner and Faulk, Manning and Edgerrin... Jamarcus and Run DMC! I agree they cannot reach anywhere near their full potential with the current o-line, even if Tom Cable is a genious but you don't get too many opportunities to pair talents like these... plus, the most overlooked aspect of the DMac debate is that he's a excellent reciever, and we are in dire need of anyone who can catch. DMac in the slot, alongside Walker and Curry/Carter and all of a sudden Jamarcus has a couple of weapons at his disposal. If we do draft macfadden, imagine a scenario where we offer Fargas and Fabian Washington to Cincy for Chad Johnson... 8 mil cap hit or not, how can they say no? That's an offense I get chills just thinking about.

#30

Posted by Thomps, April 13, 2008 11:22 PM

They say if you don't have a franchise quarterback and one is available in the draft then you have to draft one, can the same be said for a franchise RB?

Cause right now we don't have one.

#31

Posted by Snoopy, April 14, 2008 2:47 AM

Hey jason griffin, Don't get chills dude.. try inhaling pure lemon oil, just a couple or 3 deep ones will do. don't want any of the Raider faithful to get sick now... LOL!

Just kidding bro but the lemon oil is 4 REAL.

The more I hear you and guys like OakFoSho talkin about DMAC the more I'm liking him.

But in these articles I real Dmac is a Fumble Machine?!?!?! 23 fumbles in 2 years?!?!?! WHHHHAAAAAAA???

Tell me that ain't so please tell me that ain't so!!!

Honestly I haven't the time nor desire to look at these guys as much as you guys do and I respect that coz it helps guys like me get a better and different perspective on what the HECK is going on!!

but someone PLEASE explain this to me coz I'm just not feeling all of those fumbles guys... I got chills reading that stat alone!! (But I'm cool now, I did 3 deep ones with the lemon)

I got the same feeling whe I read about Jake Long confessing to the media that he holds! WHAT A MORON!

That guy would be a penalty machine playing for us... Oh NO!!! We draft him and forget it.

Hopefully Dmac isn't MacFumble and a uupps I'm sorry won't cut it.

With God's help Chris Long falls to us and all of this will be academick!!!

You guys a great... keep it going!!!

Just.. no basketball talk ok hehehe

#32

Posted by sylvester, April 14, 2008 5:54 AM

The 2 best players in this draft are Glenn Dorsey and Darren McFadden. One will be available. I'm tired of the ancient excuse of drafting for need. Teams that draft for need are destined to pick at the top of the draft. It happens every year. Teams that draft the best player available usually are the better teams in this league. A position of strength can one week can be a position of weakness the following weak because of injuries. Our RB situation is not that great. Fargas had one solid season, Bush had a major injury and ahsn't played in 2 years, Jordan is slow and has a bad back, and Rhodes is a backup. So how is this a position of strength. I don't see it. Just because a player rushes for 1000 doesn't make him a superstar. A player can gain a 1000 yards in a season by averaging 63 yards a game. Big deal. On the other hand we have not stopped the run in over 5 years. I can't be mad at the Raiders selecting Dorsey or McFadden. Anyone else isn't up to there level.

#33

Posted by angelodebo, April 14, 2008 9:58 AM

Dorsey or Ellis. Raiders need to stop the run! Look at the Patriot's (solid franchise) draft...Always drafting Defensive Lineman! If you have a chance to draft a future All-Pro Defensive lineman, YOU DO IT!!

Def. need to make a trade in order to pick up 3rd/4th round pick & address the OT position.

#34

Posted by inonewordraider, April 14, 2008 11:35 AM

We gotta get a run stopping DLineman w/ #3 (Dorsey, Long, or Ellis) but we also MUST get quality OLineman. Will Fabian Washington and Lamont Jordan be enough trade bait?

#35

Posted by Rebel2124, April 15, 2008 12:25 AM

Jordan I don't think will be good trade bait. People know he'll probably get dumped considering Fargas's extension, Bush now being healthy and Rhodes contract restructuring. Fabian could possibly work. I don't know if we have too many other people anybody wants aside from the obvious people we're going to keep. Run stopping D-lineman, you are right!!!

Defense wins championships!

p.s. Time for a uniform upgrade!